Alien Bob o KDE3 i KDE4 i problemima Slackware-a sa politikom "velikih igraca"

8 odgovora [Poslednji unos]
Andersen
Slika korisnika Andersen
Offline
User
Član od: 04/04/2007

Alien Bob je na svom blogu napravio kratak pregled desavanja oko KDE na Slackware-u.

http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/kde3-kde4-and-slackware-13-0/

U tekstu se nalaze i linkovi ka paketima 3.5.10 i 4.3.1 za Slack 13

Takodje, u istom tekstu je pomenut problem koji Pat i ekipa imaju sa verzijom KDE 4.4, ali i ne samo sa njom :

Quote:

KDE 4.4 is surrounded by some “political” issues involving the influence of certain big distros, which keep it from being included into Slackware in the near future. Perhaps I should talk about that in more detail, but I will spend another blog post on that.

Dodatna objasnjenja je dao u komentarima :

Quote:

My remark about “politics” was indeed referring to the fact that KDE 4.4 loses functionality if it is compiled while PolicyKit is not present on the system. This is questionable, since KDE4 should be using kauth as an abstraction instead, but as it stands, kauth integration will not be ready until KDE 4.5.
In the meantime some of KDE 4.4’s components “need” PolicyKit and there is no way around it, thanks to hard-headed developers.

The whole issue with PolicyKit, and more generally the whole set of “*Kit” libraries is that not only are they pushed into Linux by the big distros while at the same time dropping support for HAL, but support for the generic UNIX authentication backend “shadow utils” is ignored in favour of PAM. This is understandable if you consider that the other popular Linux distros are all using PAM. However, if we look upon X.Org and KDE as an Operating System’s core components, then these should not be intimately tied to Linux. Instead, their developers should strive to keep their code applicable to a wider range of OS’es.
Creating a dependency on PolicyKit (which is the work of a single Redhat employee and which is unstable as hell), and DeviceKit which was written by the former HAL developer after he left the HAL code to rot, is a very bad decision in my view.

Yes, it is the issue of the big players defining the rules of the playground, and many other developers (have to) follow suit (X.Org will drop support for HAL in their future releases).

It’s not just the big distros of course. Look at the devastating entanglement of kernel, mesa, X.Org and Intel developers, who managed to keep X.Org in a pretty useless state for more than a year.

I do think that Free Software is being hi-jacked for the sake of the Big Bucks. It used to be just the Big Egos and I could live with that. Nowadays, we are being pushed in all directions, and I am speaking of Slackware of course. It is a miracle that Pat manages to maintain a stable and useable distro at all! Even with a team of helpers, Pat is the one who defines Slackware and makes it stand out in the crowd of distros that strive to look alike even if they do not admit it.

End rant. I need another Trappist now.

Eric

Note: I never stated that Slackware will not add KDE 4.4 because of these issues. I merely said that this will not happen in the immediate future. We are working with developers to get our shadow utils supported in polkit which is one way to take away the pain. Another alternative is to take the loss and add KDE 4.4 with reduced fuctionality. Look at my KDE 4.4 prerelease packages… they still offer a great desktop environment!

Bice interesantno pratiti dalji razvoj situacije, kako oko KDE tako i oko X.Org-a i podrske za HAL.

0
DrLove73
Slika korisnika DrLove73
Offline
User
Član od: 29/05/2006

Zanimljivo. Srecom, GNOME i XFree86 nisu (valjda) krenuli u tom pravcu, pa ce moj voljeni CentOS ostati postedjen.

Pitanje je: Ili se varam? imas li  nekih vesti da GNOME-u i XFree86 idu u istom pravcu?

nowave
Slika korisnika nowave
Offline
User
Član od: 29/05/2006

Pa GNOME i jeste nastao kao odgovor na tadasnji non-free/open Qt toolkit. Sumnjam, ili bolje reci i ja se nadam, da GNOME nece krenuti u tu stranu, a samim tim cela plajada Debian-olikih distro-a ce ostati netaknuta Smile

DrLove73
Slika korisnika DrLove73
Offline
User
Član od: 29/05/2006

Pa i Red Hat i dalje forsira GNOME, zar ne? RHEL je GNOME default, a i Fedora 12 koju sam probao nedavno je takodje bila GNOME default ako se ne vaaram.

dukenukem_4d
Slika korisnika dukenukem_4d
Offline
User
Član od: 02/07/2007

nisam obraćao puno pažnje ali izgleda da kde4 sadrži puno zavisnosti ???
i potpuno novi build system
znači to je nešto oko polkita u pitanju ? skoro je nemoguća  misija da se nešto što zahteva polkit pokrene na slackware- :'(

U vezi nečeg drugog.
Postoji bazična biblioteka udev koja je u sličnoj situaciji , ona je ispod svega na modernoj distribuciji
jedan layer iznad kernela ali na puno sistema ne funkcioniše baš uvek sa svim uređajima .
u principu je zamišljena u osnovi zbog manipulacije sa većim brojem (i pri tome mislim baš puno 10 ili 20 ili više) hard diskova na serverskim računarima,
dok na desktopima je zadužena za različit hardver.Kada joj nije dobro onda npr linux desktop neće da se podigne,
što otvara manevarski prostor za kritičare pljuvački raspoložene (neću da imenujem)
Laughing out loud
u 80% slučajeva je funkcionalno ?

__________________

ADSL 1024 Slackware Srbija?Psy linux> Notorrni_modem ali se teže instalira od oootranslit ња ња

Andersen
Slika korisnika Andersen
Offline
User
Član od: 04/04/2007

Setio sam se da sam ranije u nekom changelogu (sad vec ne znam koje verzije Slack-a) procitao neki Pat-ov komentar u vezi sa PAM-om. Prilicno ga je "nagrdio" i rekao nesto tipa "vise mu odgovara naziv SCAM nego PAM". I bila je slicna situacija, radilo se o tome da je PAM bio dep. za nesto sto je ovaj pokusavao da sredi, i kad je video da ne moze nikako bez toga malo je "dao masti na volju". Kao "mozete ako hocete ovo da namestite sami da instalirate PAM, ali ne znam zasto bi vam tako nesto padalo na pamet"  Smile

Sto se KDE tice, zgleda da je ovaj problem za sada vezan samo za 4.4, ali ko zna sta ce biti dalje..

Za Devicekit i ostale "kitove" tvrde da su jako nestabilni, mada bi se ocekivalo da nesto sto je modularno bude bolje resenje od monolitnog, ali eto..

Treba imati poverenja u Pat-ovu tvrdoglavost Smile

DrLove73
Slika korisnika DrLove73
Offline
User
Član od: 29/05/2006

i kukuruzu treba vremena da sazri, o deci da ne pominjemo. Beba kada dozivi "bug" pocne da se dernja pa i roditeljske jedinice pocnu da brljave zbog stack overflow-a Laughing out loud

Andersen
Slika korisnika Andersen
Offline
User
Član od: 04/04/2007

Pa jeste, isplati se cekati, ali ako se "mali" vaspitava i odgaja na pravi nacin i u pravom smeru Wink

DrLove73
Slika korisnika DrLove73
Offline
User
Član od: 29/05/2006

Pa moze da se koristi caura maka umotana u gazu/krpu i valjda polivena vrelom vodom, radile su to zene koje su isle na njivu da kopaju po ceo dan u davna vremena, ali ne bih rekao da takva deca postaju raketni naucnici  :laugh: